Post-Prime Day: Q4 Prep Starts Now with Daniela Bolzmann

Chris: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Welcome back to Seller Performance Solutions, our wonderful illustrious podcast. Lee is not with me this week. I’m with Daniela Bolzmann of Mindful Goods. Daniela, how are you doing?

Daniela: I am doing well. I’m, I’m bummed that Leah’s not here.

Chris: Maybe next time, next time you can speak to her and I’ll be off, you know, on vacation somewhere.

We’ll do that.

Daniela: Aw.

Chris: Not that I take vacations, but.

Daniela: Well, I don’t play favorites. You guys are both my favorites, so we can, we can all join each other on a podcast together.

Chris: Sounds like what a parent would say about their kids and playing favorites. That’s an excellent answer. Good job. Well, today we thought we’d flip the script a little bit.

It’s the middle of summer. Change things up. You’re gonna kind of quiz me a bit, and then I’m gonna comment on some of your quiz questions. Obviously right now we’re just out of prime day, hectic. Interesting. Sometimes good, sometimes awful. We’ve seen things run the gamut, but [00:01:00] I’ll just start with a first question and then you can hit me with your questions back, but, anything crazy happen?

How did it go overall, just to kind of close the loop on prime day discussion, do you think the four days are gonna shrink to two or three next year? What do you think?

Daniela: I don’t know, you know, with TikTok making their promotions run weeks, I think that was kind of an incentive for Amazon to make theirs a little bit longer.

I don’t know what they’re gonna do. What’s interesting is for us, because we’re a creative agency, our busiest time are the weeks leading up to Prime Day. And then we always tell clients to have like a safety measure of not touching their listings with at least a certain amount of business days, so that their team can pay attention to any content rejections before Prime Day.

Right. Because the last thing you wanna do is upload your content the day before Prime Day. Amazon doesn’t like the content, they suppress the content. You can’t even do your prime day deals, you should be doing that at the bare minimum a few days before, but like realistically a week before, two weeks before, you should be already starting to upload [00:02:00] content so you can get that buffer in and understand any tweaks you need to make.

So for us, prime day’s a little bit different. We heard mixed reviews across the board, and that’s where this got really interesting because I reached out to you and was asking you like what did you see with Prime Day? Because I remember last year you like had to deal with this like major fiasco, wasn’t like Brandon from DataDive, didn’t his account get attacked?

And like there was just a lot of things that you saw and I was just curious like, what did you see this year versus what you saw last year? Is there any new patterns that we need to pay attention to? What did you see?

Chris: Yeah, and it’s interesting what you just said about doing content weeks in advance because I was kind of curious if people did do everything right, did things in June or May, and then if like the day before Prime Day Amazon suddenly objected, I’m guessing you’re gonna say it doesn’t take 30 days for them to notice something they don’t like.

They flag it quickly.

Daniela: Yeah, they flag pretty quickly.

Chris: Yeah, I mean we still see night before stuff like a listing goes down, there’s a crisis. I will say [00:03:00] last year was worse in terms of crazy, crazy suspensions. So maybe, there’s a ray of light here where things will be better next year. And maybe they were, I would say they were a little bit better this year in terms of less craziness.

There was certainly still abusive attacks because people are always trying to get their competitors pushed into the wrong category. Sometimes the adult category, which is what I call search Siberia, right? But even if it’s not in the adult category, just in the wrong category. So we still saw that, and that’s just the ongoing battle of illicit asin contributions.

Sometimes on the vendor side, if there’s no vendor account involved, sometimes illicit keywords being pushed into the backend through a variety of mechanisms that I think that’s always gonna be an issue. But I didn’t see as many crises this year, except around review manipulation. There were review manipulation threatened account suspensions or actual account [00:04:00] suspensions right before Prime Day. So that was the biggest difference this year. Most of them were in Europe. And I have a theory, I’m still working on them and I’m still working on my theory. But I do have a theory, which is they always start with the US and they started doing review manipulation suspensions in March, like right around prosper Showtime. There were a bunch.

Daniela: And when you say they, who are you talking about?

Chris: Amazon.

Daniela: Okay.

Chris: Enforcement teams, policy enforcement teams were taking down accounts, or you know how it works with account health assurance. They might buy you 72 hours to appeal to keep your account active.

But let’s just say it was a combination of actual suspensions and threatened suspensions. March, april, may, US, mostly the focus. So I think it’s just they don’t want to do every region all at once. For any mass operation like that. So I honestly think it took them until June something to circle around to the European accounts.[00:05:00]

Daniela: I did see something interesting, which I’m curious if you noticed as well, because I remember you bringing this up last year when you were working with Brandon. I think you had said like, why is it that people can file infringements during such a like prime day event? Like it seems like Amazon shouldn’t be doing anything at that time.

They should just like protect sellers and let them run what they need to run and then deal with the aftermath. which was interesting because Leah and I had been talking about something else unrelated and she had sent me the link to the infringement page. And it was during the prime days event.

’cause it’s not a day now. It’s days. Days.

Chris: The prime week.

Daniela: Prime week. Prime week.

Chris: Yeah.

Daniela: That I had clicked on the link just to like go and look at it. And it wasn’t live, it wasn’t loading. And I thought, oh, that’s interesting. I wonder if they took note. I wonder if they’re listening to Chris. I wonder if they took note or if it just happened to be that I clicked on it at a time when maybe there was a surge of [00:06:00] traffic and the page wasn’t live, or I don’t know what, but I tried refreshing a few times and I thought, well, that’s smart.

If they took it down, you know that They don’t want people filing these things that are bogus during prime day.

Chris: That’s a good question for Seller Cafe amazon Accelerate in Seattle. It could be either of those. But they can’t really close the door to accepting infringements because when you submit a rights owner claim, in theory, you’re losing money because somebody’s offended your rights ownership, and Amazon’s on the clock to resolve it, or at least give you the opportunity to report it for them to take action, to contact the other party.

Daniela: It would make more sense is they would accept the request and they would say something like, you know, yeah, this will be handled after the holiday or after the promotional event or something. Yeah. To let the seller know.

Chris: That’s an interesting question for Amazon Legal.

Like, can you just send a message back to a rights owner making the allegations saying we will [00:07:00] spend the next 48 hours reviewing this. And then take action. That’s a good question. Yeah.

Daniela: Yeah. I have another thing to bring up. So, for those that don’t know, this is gonna be quite an interesting podcast for me too, because for us, when we’re working with clients, we’re mostly working on the creative side. So we don’t do account management, we don’t do PPC. We’re not a full service agency. We’re purely focused on creative, but our clients come to us with a whole slew of problems. There’s brands that come to us and they have something’s going on with their account before they even started working with us, and so we recommend that they resolve it before we even get started.

Right. There’s clients that might be in the middle of working with us and we see something odd and we’re not exactly sure what it is. And we will also refer them to you in that scenario. Or we have clients that come to us after the fact and they’re like, oh no, can you help us with this? We don’t know what’s going on.

Again, not related to our scope of work, and we oftentimes send them to you. You’ve become kind of our go-to in like the troubleshooting problem solving space. I don’t know if you know that, but you and Leah are like our go-to team.

Chris: We were beginning to make the assumption. [00:08:00] Yes.

Daniela: Yeah. And, and I feel like there’s just so many of these like little nitty gritty problems that you guys deal with on a day-to-day basis that are not as familiar to us because we only stay in this like one lane of Amazon. Yeah. Like within that, what are the patterns that you’ve been seeing lately?

I’m so curious to know what are the things that people need to watch out for? What should we prepare for as we’re heading into Q4? And then after that I do wanna talk about Amazon accelerate. ’cause I wanna hear more about that.

Chris: Yeah. And I haven’t actually gotten my ticket yet, but I’m planning to go and mostly based on my experience last year for Accelerate.

It is interesting that they don’t want to give much of a heads up. There’s still lots of surprises. I wish they did listen to me more because my number one recommendation would be Stop surprising people. And be consistent with either the messaging or the enforcement action, right? Because my operating theory with the review manipulation, for example, is it just took them until just before Prime day to get around to the [00:09:00] European accounts.

So it was just happenstance and no one was thinking, oh, do you realize we’re executing this big wave of enforcement right before Prime Day, which might hurt our European numbers or something like that. So like they’re kind of surprising themselves. And surprising sellers, and that’s one communication gap on their side.

And I wish we weren’t seeing that. We’re still seeing that just because amazon kind of does things when they get around to them, not on the right schedule. Yeah. And I think also they reserve the right to change their mind, and sometimes they see this big thing coming down the pike and they’re like, you know what, let’s put that off for a few weeks.

Daniela: Can you share like what kind of review manipulation are you seeing? I did see a post recently on LinkedIn. I think it was like a month or so back, but it was, about,, oh my gosh, what was it called? It was the that brand that has the beef tallow brand of like beef tallow face lotion or whatever.

And that owner of that account got basically like kicked off of Amazon [00:10:00] forever for manipulating reviews and so. The way that he was doing it though, was he apparently allegedly, um, sending influencers to competitor accounts and saying, this one’s good, but not something like, this one’s good, but not as good as my favorite band of beef tallow.

Yeah. Like, is that what you most commonly see right now? Or is there other types of review manipulation that you’re seeing?

Chris: A month ago that was extremely, I mean, it’s still relevant now, but a month ago there was a wave of. You’ve been leaving nasty reviews for competitors and you’re going to pay the price.

And some people were doing it brazenly from their own buyer accounts associated sometimes the same email. I always say, never use the same email on your buyer account and your seller account. For a lot of reasons, but this in particular, other people were just tasking services or friends or whoever to leave bad reviews for other people. And then they were trying to appeal it, saying, well, we really do think those [00:11:00] as if you could argue, like, we genuinely believe that their products are terrible and ours are wonderful. The bottom line is you can’t do that. My advice is don’t leave any reviews for competitors.

Some people are even being accused of leaving bad reviews for their competitors, and they weren’t. It was their competitors trying to frame them. Trying to build a page or make it look like there’s a group out there, like a WhatsApp group or some sort of mastermind group where somebody was trying to say, Hey, go after these guys.

There are competitors and they weren’t doing it. That’s a bit more sophisticated black hat. But you can dispute that and you can deal with it and keep Amazon from suspending you, but never leave nasty reviews for competitors thinking that you’re going to have a. Acceptable explanation for it later.

So that was trendy about 30 days ago.

Daniela: Are you seeing any, any safe ways that people do get reviews to their listings?

Chris: Amazon wants everyone corresponding with buyers through buyer seller messaging. I’ve seen a lot of emphasis on [00:12:00] why are you sending postcard? I mean, definitely if you’re sending physical postcards, which I know that kind of was a thing or a trend for a while, I didn’t realize that it had come back.

After Amazon got angry about it before, I didn’t realize, I know marketing ideas tend to cycle back through.

Daniela: Yeah. Inserts.

Chris: But, but the postcards, like, let’s start with the postcards. If you’re sending physical mail to people, Amazon will start sending you messages saying, why are you using residential addresses for buyers in this illicit way?

And they’ll be upset about it and they’re not gonna care, I had a lot of conversations with brands about. Well, what does it say on the postcard? Is there a QR code on it? Are you asking for an email address? First of all, stop sending any postcards. They don’t care what’s on it. They don’t want physical mail going to buyers anymore.

That idea, if it was ever an idea has come and gone and it’s had its day, and that was 2023 or 2022, so stop doing that. Email addresses, lately it looks like they’re really [00:13:00] ticked off that people are having product inserts or whatever. With a QR code that harvests an email address and then later, like most brands, I guess the answer to your question is most brands thought, let’s get the email addresses now and not send a first email that asks for a review.

Gives away product, let’s just send something. Hey, do you wanna join our newsletter? Nothing else. Very objective, very vanilla, very just getting the email address but later send the coupons, send the discounts, offer giveaways, and they expect that to work. I’ll tell you why that doesn’t work.

Your competitors are watching every single thing you do. Referring abuse reports to the proper teams at Amazon has never been easier, and more people know the right ways to do it. Not seller support cases, not talking to account health, not sending emails to random queues, People know how [00:14:00] to report this stuff.

Assume competitors are buying from you, seeing your whole funnel, screenshotting it and reporting it to Amazon’s product review of use teams. Just assume it. Because I’ve had a lot of conversations with brands who tell me how could Amazon possibly know our whole funnel?

How could they possibly see all this offline stuff we’re doing? How do they know we’re not using buyer seller messaging to communicate with buyers? The answer is so simple. It’s if the public can see it, then Amazon can see it, and when they see it, they don’t like it, and that’s what’s happening.

Daniela: Yeah, yeah.

I think there’s a difference between. And this is the way that I think Shannon Roddy has always explained it to me too, is like there’s a difference between a customer that you are paying for initially that you captured on your own with your own investment, and then you’re sending them through to Amazon as a bonus, right?

there’s a difference between that and you getting the customer from [00:15:00] Amazon and trying to extract their information from Amazon which Amazon absolutely does not like. Amazon does reward you for driving your own traffic to Amazon and that’s what you can see with them rewarding your account with extra traffic when you’re driving from their competitors like TikTok or from Google Search, like if you are driving ads and then pushing them through to Amazon. Amazon loves that, so you just have to be smart about what you are collecting, at what stage you’re collecting it, and that you’re not manipulating anything in the process.

I think one of the things that is like the most obvious that I think people forget sometimes is the language that you’re using when you’re sending a message to someone can be considered manipulation. So when you’re saying if you had a good experience messages here, but if you had a bad experience messages here like that in itself, you’re pushing people to different directions based on how their experience was, and that is manipulation in the eyes of Amazon.

So it’s, and it’s not new, it’s just those little things.

Chris: What worries me most, I mean, this is where I kind of have to [00:16:00] ask you. I understand there’s a bit additional desperation out there in terms of sales. Margins are thinner, costs are higher. Storage fees, ads, whatever. People are spending a lot of money and they’re not making as much profit.

I get that. But why are people like the example you just gave? I still see people doing that. Why are people doing something that died off two years ago? That’s interesting. ‘

Daniela: Cause I don’t, I don’t actually view it as, in some cases,

obviously some cases they know better and they’re doing it anyways.

Right, right. I actually think there’s cycles every year that happens of new sellers entering the market. Yeah, and they honestly don’t know that this was a thing back in the day. They heard that this could be a good way to market and they are trying, these tactics that they heard from some guru on YouTube is a good idea when in fact it’s not.

Right. And so, yeah, like I think it’s done with the best intent to grow their business, not knowing that it’s something that can get them in a lot of trouble. I see that actually a lot with a lot of different things that people are, are trying. [00:17:00] One of the number one things is like any new seller, they’re just trying to get reviews.

So of course you’re gonna go ask your friends and family like, Hey, leave me a positive review. Leave me a positive review. Right? Like that would be the first thing that I would do as a brand owner. I wouldn’t know any better. I wouldn’t know that You should absolutely not do that, and that it can jeopardize your whole business.

Chris: Right?

Yeah. The problem is they don’t ask for a plan of action anymore, where you take responsibility, admit it, ask for forgiveness, give an improvement plan. So back in those days, you could make those beginner mistakes. The difference now, and you can see it, I mean it’s almost worth a whole other podcast just talking about how I’ve gotten all these bits of information.

I’ve been on calls, some calls directly with the product reviews teams where they’ve added an investigator from that team to a call with account health reps. They never did that before. Now they directly tell you things that you used to have to guess at, and it’s also in the messaging and it’s like they’re telling people, we don’t care if this was [00:18:00] ignorance or naivete or lack of knowledge because you’re new. We don’t care if you’re new. We don’t care if you’re 10 years old. We’re enforcing policies in a different way now, which is kind of a heavy handed brutal way of doing it where you can’t just apologize.

Daniela: Right.

Chris: So that’s where it’s like, it can be a one and done.

That’s what the most-

Daniela: and in that case there should be a stronger onboarding process for new brands, right? Like something that’s training them to say, these are some of the things that are best practices for Amazon, and these are the no-nos, right? But I don’t think any brand has ever gotten that from Amazon.

So I think that’s something that they could definitely improve.

Chris: I mean, the policy page they do through seller university or other mechanisms, they do push you to review policy pages and the problem with review manipulation is the policy page, people like to think it’s vague, but I think it’s pretty clear and not everything’s black and white.

Some of the language they use could be adjusted or improved, but it does say right on the policy page, which we can include in the show notes [00:19:00] here. You’re supposed to communicate with buyers through buyer seller messaging. You’re not supposed to give offers. You’re not supposed to do anything that would make people more likely to leave you a positive review.

Well, if you give product away, you’re going to be more likely to get positive reviews. And it doesn’t matter if you ask for a review while giving things away. That was the most common offense that I saw on the last go round with review manipulation was, yeah,

Daniela: that was like a year and a half ago.

That was a big thing, right?

Chris: Something like that. It’s like all these people, and I don’t know how many dozens of cases we did, everybody was giving product away, appealing it, getting rejected, and the basis of their appeal was, well, it’s okay to give product away if you don’t ask for a review. And that wasn’t true.

That’s just a myth.

Daniela: That’s interesting. ’cause that’s something that I heard and I heard from multiple agencies that built their whole business around that. And rebate companies built their businesses around that.

Chris: I know they did. If you give product away, they see your thumb is on the scale and anything that tips the scale in your favor is considered manipulation.

Just [00:20:00] to kind of close this off, the last thing I’ll give was from the call I was on with Account Health, the brand owner product review abuse teams, it was all four of us, which is unusual, but clearly an experiment of sorts on the Amazon side. They said, by the way. Even if you attempt to manipulate reviews and you don’t get positive reviews out of it, the attempt itself is considered actionable.

And they didn’t use to say stuff like that. They used to say, oh, you didn’t get any reviews out of it. We’ll slap your wrist. We’ll send you a warning. Just don’t do it again like a year or two ago. That’s how they handled it. So things are just changing, you know? This is a great time of year prepping for Q4 to be aware of.

You gotta stay up on this stuff and monitor the updates. And not everyone wants to talk about the ugly stuff.

Daniela: Yeah.

Chris: But

Daniela: yeah. And there’s things that change with content all the time too. Yeah. So like some of the things that we never used to get flagged for in the past, we get flagged for now on, on different content that we’re creating.

We’re kind of used to it, like we have a list of all the different things that get rejected. [00:21:00] We just keep adding it to the list so that we have this ongoing list of any type of rejection that we could possibly see. And anytime we do see a rejection for us, it’s kind of a normal cost of doing business, right?

We want people to be as creative as possible on Amazon to help improve their conversion. Yeah. So that’s part of our job, right? There’s, the way that I look at it is, again, something else that Shannon kind of drilled into my head that I love him for is like. There’s, it’s all about intent, right?

Like if your intent is to manipulate the customer, deceive the customer,, of course Amazon is gonna come after you. But if your intent is to aid the shopper in their buying experience and make it easier for them to add to cart and make them understand the product easier without manipulating them.

I look at that as fair game. And so when we do get content rejections, half the time, there’s no reason listed why the content got rejected. The other half of the time there is a little descriptor that says like, you know, remove this, or you can’t do this, and it explains it very clearly [00:22:00] and you’re like, great, remove that.

We’re done. Re-upload it and it’s done. Right. But if you’re not getting an explanation of what it is, it’s kind of like a guessing game because you’re like could it be this thing on this banner or could it be this thing on this banner? And then you have to submit a ticket and kind of get some clarity around it.

And so what we do is we kind of have this little, you know, if we don’t know what it is, we kind of say what is the most likely thing that it is? And we kind of like pick the two things that it might be and we create alternate versions of that, like two or three alternate versions, right? We’re saying, okay, another way that we could possibly say this or another way we could possibly show this that might not be interpreted as that, but is still aiding the shopper in their buying experience would be something like this.

And I think there’s a lot of fear mongering that goes on whenever we talk about doing something extra creative, main images being like the biggest, biggest thing that people get freaked out about. Every time I do a webinar, people are like up in arms, like, you can’t do that. You’re gonna get kicked off of Amazon.

’cause we have like these crazy main images that obviously get more clicks than competitors. Right. And for me [00:23:00] it’s about, it’s not about it being as crazy as possible. It’s about aiding the shopper, right? Like, they need to know what’s in this product. They need to know if it’s a powder or a capsule.

They need to know, how many days supply they’re getting. A mom needs to know is gluten-free or not, right? Like, these are the things that people need to know. And so if you’re doing that with positive intent, you can assume you’re staying in the right side of things.

Chris: I think that’s a good point to wrap on, the idea.

Maybe we can clear out some of the misconceptions around suspensions, listing deactivations. I mean, I understand if it’s around Prime day, the fear that, oh, if you make a change with an image or whatever, you might be suppressed for a valuable 24 hour period. But the idea, I mean, these listing suppressions, image corrections, re-up uploads, this happens all the time, and you would know if that was crippling everyone’s ability to sell, shutting all these accounts, I would tell you. Or it would just be out there on LinkedIn and people would [00:24:00] be posting, like we did a couple minor image swap outs and we got our whole account suspended. So that’s not necessarily true. I think people are saying that out of fear and ignorance, not necessarily knowledge Around the appeals process or the suspension process. You can re-upload something. I mean, yeah, you have to figure out kind of what the problem is first, maybe. Yeah. You can’t just press a button and reload it.

Daniela: For sure.

Chris: But once you’ve done that, you should get the image back and the listing back.

Daniela: And a pro tip for that.

If anybody’s curious about how to have Amazon check it for you before it goes live, instead of uploading it by editing your listing and uploading the image, instead go to manage your experiments, upload the image there, and then you’ll have a human from Amazon side review it. And if it’s approved, it’ll get pushed through the experiment.

If it gets declined, it’ll get declined without suppressing your listing and then you can adjust the image.

Oh, really quick. Yes. Amazon accelerate. So yes, I was curious about Amazon Accelerate. Okay, we’ll close with Accelerate. Yeah. So [00:25:00] last year, you were telling me about Seller Cafe and I was just chatting with somebody about it.

Because if you’re watching this and you haven’t been to Amazon Accelerate, it is an amazing conference. Highly recommend. The Block Party was amazing. Block Party was good. Yeah. It’s like no other party you’ve ever been to in your life with like good

Chris: food.

Daniela: The theatrics, the, the mm-hmm. The, the everything was just like honestly insane. I’ve never been to a party like that. Just so good. Yeah. Yeah. Um, good music, good DJs, good food cards, good Everything and everything free. Just unlimited. It was so cool. But one of the biggest value ads that I got out of Amazon Accelerate was meeting the a plus content team. And I can tell you just in the last year, they’ve probably helped me at least 15 times to unlock premium made post content for some sticky accounts. Right. For 99% of accounts, we can unlock it without a problem. But there’s certain seller accounts. They might have multiple brands on their account. They might have thousands of SKUs on their account. And so to get the premium a plus content unlocked, [00:26:00] by the traditional method just doesn’t work for those brands?

So for me, that was like my invaluable takeaway from Amazon. I mean, obviously speaking at Amazon Accelerate was was amazing. But meeting the A plus team was second to that. It was just incredible. So you were talking about seller cafe?

Chris: Seller Cafe was where I planned on spending some of my time. I ended up spending most of my time there because of, not just because they had, you know, it’s like a room full of account health reps, but other people come through.

So you do have the opportunity to make an appointment. Probably most people listening to this know you can sit down, talk about a problem, whether your account suspended, whether your listing’s down, but there’s other people there. There are executives that come through. Some of ’em you recognize, some of ’em you don’t.

Some of them we sat down with and had conversations about multiple different accounts with. Obviously I’m working at any given moment with multiple people about different types of problems. But for brand owners, [00:27:00] I mean, it’s good to understand who these people are, what their roles are. Just to meet them in person if possible, but even just awareness.

Yeah. Of they’re in, first of all, they’re interested enough to go through Seller Cafe and they understand they’re gonna get questions and some of ’em were sitting down with us and with other brands for like a little chat. It doesn’t have to be booked in advance, like an appointment. But they were there and we approached them.

So Seller Cafe was definitely worth almost all the time I spent there. I mean a couple of times I was-

Daniela: I remember you telling me that you like solved a bunch of client problems, like right there on the spot that you were dealing with.

Chris: Yeah, and hopefully they left us all reviews right on Trustpilot or Google.

But if they hadn’t mentioned that, we went to Seattle with those people and I think it meant a lot to the people I introduced them to that they had gone to Seattle even though their account was suspended or their main listing was down. They were like, you’re here in person. That shows you’re serious.

That shows you took the time to figure out [00:28:00] who I am and why you’re talking to me, not me. I’m speaking as if I’m working at Amazon. And also it motivated them more to respond, to research it, to fix it. So for that reason alone, I would do that.

Daniela: I hope they expanded

this year and, and do more of, I know of, because I think the slots were limited, right?

Like something Yeah, you had to go and sign up for it. And

Chris: I am in the process. This is kind of a, something pre-announcement. I’m in the process of putting together like an Amazon accelerate prep kit for people. Obviously if you’re going in person, it’ll be a lot more meaningful.

It’ll be meaningful anyway, hopefully. But for people who are planning to go, and a chunk of that’s gonna be about seller cafe. So here we go. Cool. Now people know.

Daniela: Yeah.

Chris: Yeah.

Daniela: Well, this is great chatting with you.

Chris: Yes, thanks for talking to me today. I don’t know if you’re hunting down looking for new clients or not, but how can people reach you if they wanna work with you?

Daniela: Head over to mindfulgoods.co, or you can find me on LinkedIn as well, but we are primarily serving about 150 plus e-commerce brands every year, [00:29:00] helping them optimize their creatives for conversion, and our clients are seeing anywhere from 20% increases in sales all the way to 2500% increases in sales. So happy to help.

Chris: And if you haven’t heard Daniela on this podcast before, for whatever reason, after listening to her today, you know why we keep having her back. So thank you for the vibrant, meaningful conversation. I appreciate your time.

Daniela: Of course. Thanks for having me.

Chris: Talk to you next time.

All right.